Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Whoa There Cowboy

Digital
Cowboy
and I go back a ways in the blogging world in fact something
he wrote was one of the fist things I wrote about. Funny thing is
that it parallels the discussion we are having now. I think I should
start at the beginning. He wrote this post to which I responded:



" I am glad to see you posting again. I know we
have had our differences in the past and we will probably have some
here as well, but I want to agree with you first. Kirk and friends
are doing things the wrong way. Scaring people does nothing but scare
them away. I will even agree with you and the third commandment. But
where we part company here is on whether or not the ten commandments
are now two. I know what you are referencing here and it comes from
the Pharisees attempting to trip up Yeshua in asking him what the
greatest commandment was. He summed up the ten commandments into two.
He did not say that they replaced the ten or that what he said
negated them in any was as part of the Law. Yeshua himself said that
He came to fulfil the Law not to destroy it. Also by saying the ten
are now the two you are in danger of making the claim that He has
changed when he has specifically said he is the same past, present,
or future.


We are
all guilty of trying to put Him into a box that fits our comfort
level. I know we have discussed this before and I know where you
stand but others may not. There is a great danger when we simply
approach Him from one angle and only discuss one aspect of Him. Love
is only one aspect, He is Holy, Righteous, and The Great I AM. He has
more facets then we as mere mortals could even begin to comprehend.
You know there have been times that I needed Him to be Daddy, but I
have never forgotten that he is the all-powerful creator of the
universe and is more than worthy of my total worshipful adoration. "



I was
going to respond in a totally different way to his response until I went back and reread his post and read what Cowboy added. I was feeling a little
pushed and pigeonholed into the same camp as Kirk and Ray at the time. I do have
one nit to pick at the end but I will save it for then.



You
state that the Law is flawed. I would say the flaw is not in the Law
but in us. If we could truly keep the Law we would have no need for
a Savior, but because of our sin nature we fall short of that glory
and we can never achieve the perfection the Law puts forth. The
sacrifices themselves were not enough to cover all of our sins. You
are right about the picture they paint of our need and the path
Yeshua would have to take to cover our sin. I also agree it is the
wrong place to start.



As you
said in the ending of your post we could sit here and argue "theology" all day, but in the end where does it get us? I am sure it is
not any closer to reaching those in need of His love. Maybe it would
be better to show where I am coming from. My calling so to speak.



I know
where you are coming from I have seen it a hundred times. People get
caught up in the trappings of religion, church doctrine, whatever you
want to call it and take their eye off the Ball, so to speak. They
are so busy trying that they simply do not let Yeshua be who He is.
I really do understand your central point. He IS LOVE. You will not
find anyone who will agree with you more than I, but I can not help
but see the box. Part of my prophetic calling is the ability to see
the boxes people try to place Him in. While Jehovah is Love, the
complete embodiment of love, a love so complete that we as finite
beings have no capacity to truly understand, He is so much more than
that. He is infinite, we can not begin to comprehend the vastness of
who He is. My calling is one of calling people out of their comfort
zones and try to see Yeshua from a different perspective. Simply put,
to pull people out of their boxes.



You
talk about love and obedience and state that we are never told to
obey Him, yet Yeshua Himself tells us that if we love Him we will
keep His commandments. This is in essence asking us to obey Him.
Obedience out of love is still obedience. This is not something asked
of those who do not know Him, and therefore should not be used as a
tool to guilt someone into accepting Him. This is no different in
our relationship to our children. One of the ways we ask them to
show their love for us is to abide by our rules. Rules do not negate
love, what negates love is abuse of the rules. When the rules become
more important than the relationship then love is no longer involved.



I find
it odd that you would comment on my worship and adoration of Yeshua.
True worship is personal and cannot be defined. It is the essence of
the relationship we have the our Creator. In essence if you love Him
the worship will flow out of your being it is not controllable. How
can you make the claim that I do not know what worship is? Do you
even know what I have heard, what I have seen? Where I have been?
Once you have been touched by the hand of the One who made the very
fabric of who you are you will never be the same.











Now
to that nit I have to pick. When making a
WILD
claim like Yeshua is his
FIRST
begotten son, back it up with scripture because it flies in the face
of what just about every follower of Yeshua knows. I will even go so
far as to quote Yeshua on the matter. If you want to argue take it
up with Him, because I will take His Word over yours any day.



For
God so loved the world, that he gave his
only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

John 3:16 KJV




For
God so loved the world that he gave his
one
and only

Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal
life.

John 3:16 NIV




For
God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave
up His
only
begotten (unique)

Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on)
Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal
(everlasting) life

John 3:16 AMP







4 comments:

digitalcowboy said...

I'll take the Word over yours any day, too. I wouldn't even respect you if you didn't trust His Word more than mine.

On this, you're simply mistaken and it's the reason I pointed it out in my blog post the way I did. You can find the evidence in Romans 8:29, for one.

The verse you quoted was him speaking before he was resurrected. He most certainly was the "only begotten son" then. Now he's the first born among many because he came to make the way for us to follow him.

That's what the born-again experience is about. It's also why I pick these nits with you. These are silly religious ideas. This very misunderstanding plays into things I read in this post and your comments at my place that disturb me.

I'm not a "mere mortal" and neither are you, as just one example. These nits are important among us believers because we're supposed to be growing up into the "measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ". To be clear, they're not arguments that have any place being had in front of the lost.

But this is my mission: To root out and destroy religion everywhere it exists and is distorting my Father's reputation.

I do it with you because I enjoy it, we're obviously both called to it, we both care about Truth and I always do it in love. (Even if I'm sometimes so clumsy about it that the love is obscured.)

digitalcowboy said...

I also love the title of this post!

And I just updated the link here on my blog. (Heidi's, too. Cobbler's barefoot kids and all that.)

digitalcowboy said...

Hey, eaglewood. I just came back to see if you had responded and in re-reading this I found I had glossed over some things that are important.

You talk about love and obedience and state that we are never told to obey Him, yet Yeshua Himself tells us that if we love Him we will keep His commandments.

Of course. Obedience grows out of the relationship and I think that's what he was saying there. If I could paraphrase, it would be, "If you love me, the natural result will be that you will keep my commandments." (Neither one is possible without the other.)

I never said that we are never "told" to obey Him. I said He doesn't require it. There is a very big difference there which I think you inadvertently pointed out right after:

Rules do not negate love, what negates love is abuse of the rules.

I know what you meant but what you actually wrote is the sort of religious garbage I'm trying to root out.

Rules don't even matter and nothing negates Love.

Roland said...

Eaglewood, I think Cowboy is right in his rant.