“Oh my, how very astute of you. I read this and can not help but think of the number of outsiders from the religious orders of the day are in the Word. You do realize that the Pharisees and Sadducees were the accepted leaders of the “church” in the time of Yeshua and John. Each of them challenged the status quo. Please do not preach to me about the “dangers” of challenging our preconceived notions of what the church is. The scriptures teach that the church is Yeshua’s bride which consists of those whom have accepted His divine gift and made Him their Lord. There is no one way in which it is prescribed that believers are to meet and fellowship be it a mega church or a humble home congregation.”
This will teach me to be more precise in my wording of things. If you will note the word church is put in quotation marks. I did this on purpose. I was using a very loose interpretation of the term “church”. Sometimes people’s preconceived notions get in the way and they do not see the real meaning behind the words spoken, or written in this case. I should have been more precise and simply said that the Pharisees and Sadducees were the religious leaders of Jehovah’s children at that time. My point in that passage had nothing to do with who started the church, but with not blindly accepting a dogmatic definition of what constitutes the church. The religious leaders in that time had an extremely rigid set of rules you had to follow in order to be considered righteous. It was also set up to keep them in power. Both John and Yeshua challenged them and their teachings and taught that all was not as they proscribed.
Now that I know where this came from I realize I ought to be more precise in what I write. I am not sure how it will come across because I tend to write like I think. The last thing I want this blog to become is synthetic where I am more concerned with what others think or may perceive than writing what is on my heart.
10 comments:
Grasshopper, I will quote a former professor from East Texas Baptist University. He said, "sometimes you just have to kick a person in the goin in love!" Step back, take a few deep breaths and relax then kick. The world becomes a much better place and you have learned an important lesson. Lesson learned: You only have to seek the apporval God, no one else really matters.
I messed up the quote. It should be groin on not goin. Sorry for the confusion, but it makes much more since with the r in there.
Might as well stir the pot really well tonight. I also had a former pastor teach that if the church were the body of Christ then it cannot be the bride as well. He always said the Israel is the Bride in the Bible and the the church is always the body of Christ, the bridegroom.
See if that messes up your theology tonight!
I would have loved messing with his theology. I would have to bring up Israel being the vine and the redeemed being grafted to the vine. Does that not then make us the Bride as well? How would he deal with that because it makes us all one. I am afraid that it is all quite intertwined between the Hebrews and the redeemed.
I know what you mean, but he looked at every passage referencing the bride and he makes some pretty sound interpretations. Even Paul says that Israel is saved first and then the gentiles. He chose Israel like a Bridegroom that chooses His bride. At least we gentiles get to make it when only the remnant of Israel does.
Never said he was right, just stirring the pot. been a slow week and I am recovering from a heat stroke so my days are just boring right now.
Don't forget: the Jews are the guests at the feast, while the Gentiles are the dogs that get the leftover scraps.
So the Bride sits at the table and gets the full meal, while the Bridegroom is eating scraps off the floor. Sounds like a typical marriage to me. ;)
Sir: I am just trying to get to the bottom of what I think you said in reply to Dr. Webb. I see that your head is like mine. It rattles differently when I am writing than when I am thinking. Heaven only knows what it will shake out when I am speaking. I will accept that as a very honest mistake, however, as you and he were getting down to brass I could not help but feel that you were saying that an organized body of believers had no authentication as a church. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but when I read the qualifications in Scripture for the officers of a church, pastors and deacons, I find it ludicrous to believe that this applies to an entity of which all of the elements are not yet formed. How would the members of such an entity insure the intent of the scripture were carried out.
I do accept, however not dogmatically, that the sum of true believers taken from the churches make up the Bride of Christ. Not all churches will be represented and not all members of any church will be included. Jesus, himself, in Matthew 13 said that the angels, or you or I, were not to purge the church. Instead He said that the tares and wheat were to grow up together and He would separate them, purge the church, at harvest. If in any other scenario, the tares were to be removed the wheat would most assuredly be damaged. For anyone to say that they were call for this duty automatically put themselves in conflict with Scripture.
Dr. Webb also took issue with NT Prophets. The transition between the OT and the NT was not as instantaneous as the writing of the salutation of Matthew was. It took a period of 70 years more or less for all of the elements to transpire, not because of The Father’s mad dash to bring these things to pass, but certainly to comply with His eschatological time table. He could have twinkled His eye and these things would have fallen into place. Much of the New Testament was written during this time. This must be considered when speaking of Old Testament officers in New Testaments times. For 70 odd years the Covenants overlapped and their respective writings and teachings also overlapped. In this transitional period also we have such things as the apostolic ministries which endured only for a short time. OT ministries were not immediately closed but over a period of time for our sakes were replaced by the ministries of the NT. One of these ministries was that of prophet, as in the OT sense of the word, was left in the past as the NT came of age. Hebrews, when studied in its fullness, is a homiletic of major importance to the Church. It states emphatically that in times past, OT times, we heard from the prophets but now, NT times, we are to listen more intently to the Son. The Son, Jesus, The eternal God-man, was the last OT Prophet and now, in NT times is our High Priest. In the OT, man needed a prophet appointed by God. In NT times, The Holy Spirit abides within the heart of every True Believer and acts to teach, empower, and convict the believer directly from God and thereby negating the need for an OT type of prophet. Besides this, it goes without saying that an OT Prophet speaks for God and therefore must bring new revelation to the people. In this era, we have the Holy Scripture, which I, and I believe you also, hold to be complete and without error in it’s original intent. My question is; How could the Holy Inspired Word of God be complete and/or without error if it is to be updated by an OT type prophet?
You say you were hurt in the past by churches. I believe you used the term abused. I just wonder if your abuse was as severe as Christ. Are we not to endure and be purified in the refiner’s fire? My dear friend, we all are afflicted in one way are another but we are now conquerors through the Spilt Blood of Christ and minister not in our own weakness but in the power of the resurrection.
May Christ bless you and fulfill you every need.
Eaglewood, I would truly like to devour. I ask permission first. But I do have blood dripping off of my fangs right now in anticipaton of hunting down dogs that don't hunt. But then again, it may not be worth exending the energy.
I have now stopped seething enough to contend that this is not one of those hills to die on. But I still hav the fight in me to do it if ya want t see fur fly.
Jimmy,
You should know you have implicit permission on my blog. I would like to read what you have to say before I comment. I would try but after traveling to Odessa I am too tired to think with any true coherency.
Taking about Mr Annony
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