While I know what my course of action is going to be. I wonder if I have grounds for more than simply resigning my position with Sears. Here is the thing. Working in a sales position we have a number of metrics we are graded on to determine if we are performing our job. 95% of those metrics I have no problem with. Selling installation, protection agreements, and accessories, are all part of the job, but one has been troubling for me since day one. That is the very active pushing of the Sears credit card. Up until now it has been only a sideline issue because I am good at all the other things. The new manager they hired for our group is cracking down on ALL metrics per the instructions of the general manager. Basically if we do not keep up on our metrics and are down two months in a row on any one metric we will be fired. Since starting there I think I have had one maybe two months total I have been up to spec on credit. The main reason is I refuse to SELL credit. It is morally repugnant to me. My main problem is I have not found a tenet in our faith that says it is sinful to be in debt. I have only seen where it is considered unwise. I have seen the damage that can be caused by consumer debt, and cannot be an active party to someone potentially destroying their life financially just to buy a lawn mower, treadmill, or a power tool. The "just have to have it NOW" mentality is fueled by consumer credit cards that charge massive amounts of interest, making it difficult at best for those caught in the trap to ever get out. This can destroy families just as assuredly as drugs, adultery, alcohol, or a number of other social problems can. As someone who believes in protecting the family from these types of ills I cannot continue to work for Sears if they make it an issue. Just kind of wondering if it could be considered religious discrimination.
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I'm pretty sure, if they can prove you knew about that requirement up front, you could not make that claim. Having said that, what an ugly practice. A job requiring you to force debt on someone. Well, that's Sears. They've been sued for shady practices more times than I can think of. Even by their own employees once!
The active pushing of credit was not explained up front. It was not until I was in training that it became clear that Sears activly sells credit. It was not until I was well out of training that it was explained that it was a job requirement.
I wouldn't know what to do, were I in your shoes.
I do know that the mechanic I take my vehicles to, used to work for Sears and also had similar problems with the way they did things.
He got fed up and started his own business. It has grown and grown and he always gets good word of mouth from me.
I wouldn't sell the credit either. To be honest, a company that is going about things that way just creates stress in it's workers and ends up with dissatisfied employees and customers. I think they are just trying to see how far they can push, but even if they fire you, wouldn't you still be able to collect unemployment? (at the very least, anyway)
Sears is only a part time job for me. What it did was pay for the little extras in life. I have a full time job, so unemployment is out of the question. I have no intention of letting this get to the point of being fired. When it comes down to me either selling credit or lose my job, there will be a confrontation and I will resign.
The problem is that Sears has basically gotten out of the business of selling merchandise, it is a front for a credit company. If they did not sell the credit cards and collect the interest (19 to 24 %) they would go out of business. It has been explained that Sears makes $1 for each $100 spent when a customer pays cash, even less with 3 party credit cards, but a Sears card nets $5 per $100 and that is just at the store level. In their eyes if we do not sell credit then we are not making the company any money.
What Would Dave Do? Dave Ramseythat is.
I wouldn't count on "religious discrimination" unless you belong to a religious sect that explicitly forbids the use of credit. I think the Amish would qualify, but I'm not sure. And the Amish don't work at Sears anyway.
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with promoting Sears' credit card. Whatever loans another person takes out are his business, not mine. A credit card is a tool; no more, no less. Like any tool, it can be used for good or ill. Here's an article about credit cards written by a pastor if you're interested.
There is nothing sinful about debt. In fact, without it, most Americans would be homeless. A lot of people abuse credit cards, but the problem is with those people and their lack of discipline, it is not with debt in general.
Ultimately, what you decide to do is up to your conscience. But believing in liberty means letting others enjoy the freedom to enter into business contracts without interference from a third party. Libertarians believe people should be allowed to succeed or fail on their own. It's not easy at times, but if you don't let others make their own mistakes, then they'll never mature like they are supposed to.
I hope some of this helped a little. Whatever you decide, I'll support you and wish you the best of luck.
eaglewood, are you possibly suggesting that credit in itself is a form of slavery? Since the Biblical text say the boirrower is a slave of the lender, is it possible that you are opposed to slavery?
I think you would do good to listen to DAve Ramsey and read his books concerning debt and the Bible.
Is debt sin? Does the debt keep a person for being able to tithe? Does debt keep a person from being able to give to those in need? Does debt lead to worry or fear? Does debt take money away from our Family and give it to others without our same moral and Christian convictions?
Is debt acceptable in our society? It is expected! Is debt a violation of the Biblical text? Yes. Is debt sin? I do not see the fruits of the spirit bound up in debt, I typically see fear, anger, nervesness, tension, inability to give to those in need and the inability to be able to give tithes and offerings to God.
Make you own conclusions.
Well, I don't have a whole lot of wisdom to add here. I would mention that debt, and temporary "slavery" was a fact of life in the nation of Israel. But there was a point in time that the "owner" had to forgive all debts. Something to do with the Jubilees (I think); I'm not too up-to-date on the Jewish "days."
But given that debt and forgiveness of debt was built into the Law, I would think that it would be a difficult argument to claim that debt itself is a sin. The credit system of our country that does not forgive debt could be claimed as sinful as there is no method of forgiveness of debt.
Personally, I have no problem with credit cards. It is a personal choice, and each person is responsible for what they use credit for. I personally buy everything on credit card and pay it off monthly. This allows me to earn money back and therefore make money off from the credit system.
Anyway, sorry for the lack of knowledge but thought I would add a little OT and personal belief to the discussion also. Good luck in your decision.
This one should really be left to YOUR conscience. I really believe that pushing a credit card on someone else may be a sin to one person, but not the next. I'm with you on the matter. I would not be comfortable at all pushing the credit cards. I payed off my last onethis year and had a plastectamy, (I cut them up.)
Jimmie, Christians have always walked a fine line, (especcially in America,) when it comes to pushing Christian values on non-believers. I would suggest not getting into debt to believers and non-believers alike, but the biblical reasons are foolishness to a non christian. They obviously don't believe in the Bible, so why would they head it's advice?
Triton "without [debt], most Americans would be homeless." actually, without it, most american's would be renting until they saved enough to buy a small house, then saved enough to buy a slightly bigger house, etc. I truly believe the entire world would be better off without it. Maybe I'm just nieve.
Some thoughts:
But believing in liberty means letting others enjoy the freedom to enter into business contracts without interference from a third party True, but this does not mean that the believer in Liberty should take part in or push the contract.
Jimmie, you brought up the verse I was thinking of. I also think of Rom. 13:8 which says "Owe no man anything" then continues to say "but to love one another" If we are not to owe anything, certainly we shouldn't push others into owing either.
Geppy writes "This allows me to earn money back and therefore make money off from the credit system." You aren't really making money. What happens there is that the Credit Card company charges the vendor X% for each transaction. When the Credit Company gives you money back then they simply charge the vendor X%+Y which simply drives up prices, meaning you (and everyone else) simply pay more.
I am about to begin construction on a multi million dollar camp facility. We will have approximately 800 beds when construction is complete. I will not allow credit cards to be used to pay for the campers to attend the camp. I will not promote that which I do not believe to be acceptable behavior. This will not hurt business because I will accept checks. I will not ask a person to attend my camp in hopes of them being spiritually from from the slavery of sin and help them to become slaves to any man.
It is a matter of principle, it is a matter of moral concern, it is a matter of slavery to me. I will not be party to participating in another person being sold into slavery.
I know that there are those who participate in this matter, but as for me and my house, we will not be slaves to any man.
Yes, I am renting until I can afford to purchase my home in cash.
Jimmie,
Be prepared to have the FBI looking into your life for that.
True, but this does not mean that the believer in Liberty should take part in or push the contract.
Agreed. As I told Eaglewood, this would ultimately be a matter for his conscience to decide.
And with all due respect, Jimmie, I think your categorization of debt as "slavery" is a bit presumptuous. I have a credit card, and use it on occasion. I have always paid the bill in full; I have never paid interest or fees. If anyone is "enslaved" by my credit card, it's American Express, it is certainly not me. People like me might be rare, but we do exist.
I hope you pay for your water, electricity, and gas in advance, too. Otherwise, you are still accruing debt. And when you go to Chili's or Applebee's, do you pay before you eat, or after?
I'm not trying to irritate you with absurd examples. I'm just trying to make the point that unless both parts of a transaction are made simultaneously, then there is debt involved on someone's part. That debt may only last for the duration of a meal, but it exists nevertheless.
Anyway, back to Biblical text...
I should have anticipated that someone would mention Romans. Here's a rebuttal to the "all debt is bad" interpretation. As always, don't take my word for it; make up your own minds.
Amen Triton. Also, just look in Deuteronomy where the Law (which is good, pure, and holy) gives instruction on credit, lending, borrowing, and forgiveness of debt.
Is it good to bury yourself in debt - by no means. But credit is only a tool. The usage of the tool can be good, and it can be evil.
Also, Deuteronomy also explains that slavery itself is not necessarily a bad thing. All depends on who your master is. Good thing we have the best master there could be in Jesus.
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