Belief, Faith, and Salvation Part 2

“I understand that God is Holy, and that prior to His incarnation as Jesus, He could not tolerate sin any more than we could tolerate His judgment. But once He incarnated, He walked each day with sinners, and patiently explained our errors, and led by example. Instead of being some overwhelming force of nature, He became one of us, albeit the perfection of man. If Jesus wanted to summon the chariots of angels and smite us all, He could have; but instead He wanted to show us infinite love and compassion. Otherwise why incarnate at all? He could have just nuked the planet from orbit and started over.

The only logical result, given our sinful nature and our lust for power over others, was that He would be put to death. God of course knew this before He ever incarnated, and therefore we know that God willingly sacrificed Himself… why?”

Why?  This is because Jehovah said from the beginning that the price of sin is death.  This was not simply a physical death but a spiritual death. Complete separation from Him for all of eternity.  These were His rules He could have done anything he wanted to absolve us of sin including starting over (He almost did), but His love for us stayed His hand.  Through the systemic sacrifices to atone for sin He set up for the Hebrew people he showed that the absolution for sin was through the death of a perfect sacrifice.  Even then He knew that the death of even perfect animals could not in fact absolve those sins.  These sacrifices were a sign of faith for His eventual sacrifice for us (though some could not see it).  The prophet Isaiah was one of the prophets who saw this clearly. Even then the people had to accept the sacrifice in faith.

Whether you like it or not, God is the one who condemns us. If I murder a man and stand trial, during sentencing the judge might scold me and say that my own actions have condemned me to a life in prison; but that is empty rhetoric. Look up the word in the dictionary, Eaglewood. It is the Judge that condemns. It’s not just a semantic distinction; God takes responsibility for His creation, and makes His judgment knowing full well the consequences for us. He certainly knows the consequences of our sin better than we do. And He also knows that the cotton candy approach of forgiving everything would not help us either.


But given that He is perfect and Holy, and could not tolerate the smallest measure of sin, He knew that heaven would be very lonely, and that virtually no one would have a chance at salvation. He might as well nuke the planet from orbit. Instead He had a better plan. He would incarnate as flesh, and force his perfection into the vessel of a human brain and body, to better understand us, and for us to better understand Him. He gave the power of judgment to this man, to Himself, to Jesus. He will act as our defense attorney, the prosecutor, and the judge. The facts will not be in dispute in this trial, so there will be no jury of our peers. Jesus will know our heart viscerally, as a human, in a way that the Father could not, but for His incarnation as the Son.

Jesus said, “I am the way.” But he did not mean that the only way to avoid the second death was to believe that He is the way. He meant that He will judge us. Period. Full stop.

If I were a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or even an atheist, Jesus might think I was pretty confused, but would He necessarily condemn me? You say yes. If I understand your logic, it is as follows: All are sinners, and all would be condemned, but because of some magic power called “absolution”, faith in Jesus is what will make Jesus decide that He should judge you worthy to walk with God.

First of all, define absolution and show me how this concept is biblical. Secondly, show me where Jesus says that it is belief in Him as the Son of God that will “save me”. Prove it.

Come on Luke send me a curve ball, something that might even challenge me as it is you just lobbed a 12 inch softball right over home plate.

The central core of the Christian faith is summed up in one verse but the supporting verses after it go on to show that your whole premise of judgment and why He came to not be supported in the Scriptures.  I for one will take what the scriptures have to say any day over the conjecture of  man and his agendas.

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 3: 13 – 21 KJV

13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
John 3: 13 – 21 NASB

I used two different versions here the KJV and the NASB. I prefer the NASB as it is more literal than the KJV but the KJV is the more common translation.  As you can see Yeshua in his own words is saying that belief in Him is the criteria for eternal life and not perish. This is in verse 16, verses 17-21 state He was sent as a Savior not a Judge and sets down the case for the need for a Savior not a Judge.  Verses 13 –15 take some understanding of the history of the Hebrew people.  This is a story that Nicodemus would have been familiar with being a Pharisee. The gist being that when Jehovah had cursed the Israelites in the wilderness with snake bites that would not kill but make the people wish they were dead He had Moses fashion a bronze serpent and had him raise it up upon the desert and those that looked upon the serpent and believed they would be healed, were.  Yeshua used the analogy to show that salvation was analogous to this event in history and that salvation was through faith and nothing more.

“I believe that Jesus was the Son, the incarnation, the living, human God. I believe that He will judge me one day. But I do not believe that my belief in Him will make the difference in His judgment. It may help, but I don’t accept that it is the only measure. My faith in Jesus may make me a better man in this life, but I am not convinced that my faith alone determines my fate in the next life. There is a hierarchy in heaven, after all.”


“I guess I am disagreeing with you, technically. I am speculating that without Jesus we would all perish because God the father would not put up with our crap.

But I am also saying that it is not specifically the faith in Jesus that will save some of us (I hope me too), but rather the fact that Jesus has the capacity to understand us and measure our sin against our success at loving God and loving each other.

One point that was made by the article I showed you is that it is hard for people like your mother to love God when they think that God will send them to hell if they do not believe in Him. This runs counter to our nature and if it is actually the case, you should be able to a) prove it, and b) explain it in a way that an agnostic can understand. If you can’t do b, that’s ok. But if you can’t do a), then you are in peril because you may be contributing to your mother’s lack of love for God, which is definitely a problem.”

There may very well be a hierarchy in Heaven I will not disagree with you on that.  I would even go as far as speculate that the things we do in faith and out of love will determine to some degree our position in that hierarchy, but it has nothing to do with salvation or what is commonly referred to as justification.  We cannot earn justification no works we could ever perform will ever justify us to Jehovah.  And it is not that Jehovah cannot stand our sinful presence, it is that we could not survive in His perfect presence.  In order for us to survive that we had to be made perfect and based upon the rules Jehovah had set forth from the beginning only His death could accomplish such a task.  I know that it sounds wrong, it goes against our nature, but Yeshua said that His wisdom would seem foolish to man and that many would stumble and fall because they could not get beyond that obstacle of the simplicity of faith.

Being a former atheist myself, I understand that hurdle, yet being able to explain it is not always easy.  My mother’s lack of faith was used to illustrate that we are not comfortable with the thought that there are those who will choose not to believe.  My mother is openly critical of the hypocrisy that is rampant in the church. She uses it as a foil to bolster her claim that she wants nothing to do with Christianity if that is what Christians are like.  Nothing I have said has changed her view because her heart has been hardened for decades.  She made her choices a long time ago and no amount of impassioned pleading, or logical arguments is going to sway her.  That does not mean I do not pray that her heart will be softened and that one day she will see the truth.  But the choice is up to her.